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	<title>Comments for Camels With Hammers</title>
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		<title>Comment on Goodness Is A Factual Matter (Goodness=Effectiveness) by alQpr &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Absolute Ethics</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/01/23/goodness-is-a-factual-matter-goodnesseffectiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-20881</link>
		<dc:creator>alQpr &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Absolute Ethics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:20:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=14113#comment-20881</guid>
		<description>[...] Another attempt to &#8220;derive &#8216;ought&#8217; from &#8216;is&#8217; &#8221; is provided by CamelsWithHammers who identifies &#8220;goodness&#8221; with &#8220;effectiveness&#8221; at enhancing the &#8220;function&#8221; of a being. But his use of the word &#8220;function&#8221; (rather than something more neutral such as &#8220;effect) seems to beg the question by implying value before deducing it. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Another attempt to &#8220;derive &#8216;ought&#8217; from &#8216;is&#8217; &#8221; is provided by CamelsWithHammers who identifies &#8220;goodness&#8221; with &#8220;effectiveness&#8221; at enhancing the &#8220;function&#8221; of a being. But his use of the word &#8220;function&#8221; (rather than something more neutral such as &#8220;effect) seems to beg the question by implying value before deducing it. [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Goodness Is A Factual Matter (Goodness=Effectiveness) by Alan Cooper</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/01/23/goodness-is-a-factual-matter-goodnesseffectiveness/comment-page-1/#comment-20880</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Aug 2011 13:12:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=14113#comment-20880</guid>
		<description>Your use of the word &quot;function&quot; (rather than something more neutral such as &quot;effect) seems to beg the question by implying value before deducing it. 

And in cases where the function of a being is not unique,the goal of enhancing the effectiveness with which a function is performed raises the question of how to weight the competing interests of different functions of the same being.

As an example of this, consider your case of the river.It is effective at several competing functions - transport of precipitated water back to the ocean, carving valleys, filling other valleys and deltas with silt, providing habitat for birds and fishes, etc,etc,etc. Now ask whether drilling a tunnel to bypass a long sweep of the river around a massif (which enhances the water flow at expense of carving), or building a dam (which enhances bird habitat at the expense of some kinds of fishes) is &quot;good for&quot; the river. How can you answer these questions without imposing some relative value on the different functions? And from where can you find that relative value except in your own preferences? (or appeal to authority, the choice of which is really just another expression of personal preference)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your use of the word &#8220;function&#8221; (rather than something more neutral such as &#8220;effect) seems to beg the question by implying value before deducing it. </p>
<p>And in cases where the function of a being is not unique,the goal of enhancing the effectiveness with which a function is performed raises the question of how to weight the competing interests of different functions of the same being.</p>
<p>As an example of this, consider your case of the river.It is effective at several competing functions &#8211; transport of precipitated water back to the ocean, carving valleys, filling other valleys and deltas with silt, providing habitat for birds and fishes, etc,etc,etc. Now ask whether drilling a tunnel to bypass a long sweep of the river around a massif (which enhances the water flow at expense of carving), or building a dam (which enhances bird habitat at the expense of some kinds of fishes) is &#8220;good for&#8221; the river. How can you answer these questions without imposing some relative value on the different functions? And from where can you find that relative value except in your own preferences? (or appeal to authority, the choice of which is really just another expression of personal preference)?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Materialism is Unscientific by James Sweet</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/02/10/why-materialism-is-unscientific/comment-page-1/#comment-20601</link>
		<dc:creator>James Sweet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Aug 2011 14:36:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=14608#comment-20601</guid>
		<description>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_pleading</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Why Materialism is Unscientific by Heuristics</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/02/10/why-materialism-is-unscientific/comment-page-1/#comment-20472</link>
		<dc:creator>Heuristics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=14608#comment-20472</guid>
		<description>Theist here.

Why is there something rather then nothing? This is because God is a necessary being, he could not fail to exist. As such he is the ground of being, that which everything else that exists derives their beingnes from. The universe, being such a thing is thus derived from Gods being (which is the first being and the necessarily existing being).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Theist here.</p>
<p>Why is there something rather then nothing? This is because God is a necessary being, he could not fail to exist. As such he is the ground of being, that which everything else that exists derives their beingnes from. The universe, being such a thing is thus derived from Gods being (which is the first being and the necessarily existing being).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Important Camels With Hammers News by Daniel Fincke</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/08/22/important-camels-with-hammers-news/comment-page-1/#comment-20458</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Fincke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=16555#comment-20458</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much, Richard!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much, Richard!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Important Camels With Hammers News by Richard Wade</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/08/22/important-camels-with-hammers-news/comment-page-1/#comment-20457</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Aug 2011 01:36:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=16555#comment-20457</guid>
		<description>Congratulations! I was hoping for the past couple of weeks to hear this news. I wish you all the best, and I look forward to reading both of your blogs. I hope you are able to enjoy writing for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations! I was hoping for the past couple of weeks to hear this news. I wish you all the best, and I look forward to reading both of your blogs. I hope you are able to enjoy writing for them.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nietzsche&#8217;s Immoralism As Rebellion Against The Authoritarian Tendencies Of Moralities by Daniel Fincke</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/08/21/nietzsches-immoralism-as-rebellion-against-the-authoritarian-tendencies-of-moralities/comment-page-1/#comment-20422</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Fincke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 02:51:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=16545#comment-20422</guid>
		<description>Hey, thanks, John!  Hopefully you will find more of my unpacking of what&#039;s going on in Nietzsche&#039;s moral philosophy persuasive too.  

As for the praise for the honest atheist---of course I appreciate such emphases.  Chapter 3 of my dissertation was devoted to exploring the dynamics by which morality ironically overcomes itself through truthfulness (and, more specifically, we might say the atheist&#039;s truthfulness).  The challenge though is also to deal with Nietzsche&#039;s charge that even the freethinkers still have faith insofar as they believe in truth (which makes me cringe at his use of the word faith in such a misleading way).  That text is not &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; hard to contextualize so it does not undermine the kind of things which you just quoted which he says elsewhere, but it is still a moderation of his praise for atheists that needs to be mentioned and allowed to temper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, thanks, John!  Hopefully you will find more of my unpacking of what&#8217;s going on in Nietzsche&#8217;s moral philosophy persuasive too.  </p>
<p>As for the praise for the honest atheist&#8212;of course I appreciate such emphases.  Chapter 3 of my dissertation was devoted to exploring the dynamics by which morality ironically overcomes itself through truthfulness (and, more specifically, we might say the atheist&#8217;s truthfulness).  The challenge though is also to deal with Nietzsche&#8217;s charge that even the freethinkers still have faith insofar as they believe in truth (which makes me cringe at his use of the word faith in such a misleading way).  That text is not <em>that</em> hard to contextualize so it does not undermine the kind of things which you just quoted which he says elsewhere, but it is still a moderation of his praise for atheists that needs to be mentioned and allowed to temper.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Nietzsche&#8217;s Immoralism As Rebellion Against The Authoritarian Tendencies Of Moralities by John M.</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/08/21/nietzsches-immoralism-as-rebellion-against-the-authoritarian-tendencies-of-moralities/comment-page-1/#comment-20403</link>
		<dc:creator>John M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:43:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=16545#comment-20403</guid>
		<description>Hi Daniel,

This is my reading of Nietzsche on morality and it&#039;s so nice to see you interpret him in this way with such clarity and so succinctly. I look forward to your posts when (perhaps) you write about Nietzsche&#039;s claim that rigorously honest atheists are &quot;the most spiritual men [and woman] of today.&quot; (Example, Genealogy of Morals)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Daniel,</p>
<p>This is my reading of Nietzsche on morality and it&#8217;s so nice to see you interpret him in this way with such clarity and so succinctly. I look forward to your posts when (perhaps) you write about Nietzsche&#8217;s claim that rigorously honest atheists are &#8220;the most spiritual men [and woman] of today.&#8221; (Example, Genealogy of Morals)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Coming Soon To Camels With Hammers: More Nietzsche by Daniel Fincke</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/08/17/coming-soon-to-camels-with-hammers-more-nietzsche/comment-page-1/#comment-20394</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Fincke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 12:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=16537#comment-20394</guid>
		<description>Thanks, everyone.  Colin, I will make a point to address Nietzsche and evolution at some point.  To do so properly, I would like to brush up on some of the finer points so I can say something more than the familiar.  In the meantime, though, let me wholly recommend &lt;em&gt;Nietzsche, Biology and Metaphor&lt;/em&gt; by Gregory Moore, a book which thoroughly and fascinatingly situates Nietzsche&#039;s thinking about biology within the context of the 19th Century biologists who he was influenced by and &lt;em&gt;Nietzsche&#039;s New Darwinism&lt;/em&gt; by John Richardson which makes beautiful systematic sense of Nietzsche&#039;s ideas about evolution and shows their ultimate general compatibility with Darwin, despite Nietzsche&#039;s own fixation on a few perceived points of divergence from him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, everyone.  Colin, I will make a point to address Nietzsche and evolution at some point.  To do so properly, I would like to brush up on some of the finer points so I can say something more than the familiar.  In the meantime, though, let me wholly recommend <em>Nietzsche, Biology and Metaphor</em> by Gregory Moore, a book which thoroughly and fascinatingly situates Nietzsche&#8217;s thinking about biology within the context of the 19th Century biologists who he was influenced by and <em>Nietzsche&#8217;s New Darwinism</em> by John Richardson which makes beautiful systematic sense of Nietzsche&#8217;s ideas about evolution and shows their ultimate general compatibility with Darwin, despite Nietzsche&#8217;s own fixation on a few perceived points of divergence from him.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Best Christian Ever by Norman</title>
		<link>http://camelswithhammers.com/2011/05/24/the-best-christian-ever/comment-page-1/#comment-20327</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Aug 2011 18:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://camelswithhammers.com/?p=16130#comment-20327</guid>
		<description>What an awesome experiment in human behavior! - The woman actor who was lesbian - just became a real person when her heart strings were touched. Two Heros had come to their rescue from the very convincing &quot;hateful waitress&quot; - it sure got my tear ducts cleared out.  Real Love in Action!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What an awesome experiment in human behavior! &#8211; The woman actor who was lesbian &#8211; just became a real person when her heart strings were touched. Two Heros had come to their rescue from the very convincing &#8220;hateful waitress&#8221; &#8211; it sure got my tear ducts cleared out.  Real Love in Action!!</p>
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